tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post1962157320664661558..comments2024-03-15T02:50:17.397-04:00Comments on Pleasure for the Empire: 46%Andrew Bellwarehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05718623679244389126noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-68816953989988373122008-11-01T00:24:00.000-04:002008-11-01T00:24:00.000-04:00See what I started? Heck, that's why I MADE this p...See what I started? Heck, that's why I MADE this post. ;-)<BR/><BR/>BTW: the velociraptor link doesn't work anymore. Sniff...Andrew Bellwarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05718623679244389126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-10026877033400810662008-10-31T13:13:00.000-04:002008-10-31T13:13:00.000-04:00I forgot to add . . . a great example of the Yao M...I forgot to add . . . a great example of the Yao Ming structure story I shared is THE LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy (which is, interestingly enough, often cited for it's HERO'S JOURNEY structure) . . . when they originally were in pre-production (at Miramax, originally, I believe), they tried to make the whole thing as ONE movie, one long movie . . . it just didn't work as one film, you couldn't fit it in that bag . . . then they tried to fit it into two films . . . that didn't work and they let it go . . . New Line (I believe) picked it up and okayed THREE movies . . . they got a green light for three films (unlikely to happen had it not been for the long-lasting popularity of the books). . . because TLOTR is a big Yao-sized monster of a story, and to put it on a horse and expect it to cross the finish line first just doesn't work . . . it's a vast story and needs a different structure (now of course, each individual film has their own structure, one that follows Campbell's hero's journey explicitly) than a film like BABY-MAMA or THE ROAD . . . because the intent is different, the structure must reflect that. <BR/><BR/>Just my opinion, of course. <BR/><BR/>Damn it, see what you started?Joshua Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08239067667651048280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-18761243783481789702008-10-31T12:35:00.000-04:002008-10-31T12:35:00.000-04:00Yeah, I heard that about Aliens . . . ultimately t...Yeah, I heard that about Aliens . . . ultimately they figured it was better to wait and it was the right choice. <BR/><BR/>Just wonder if that would happen today, heh-heh.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I tell folks all the time that story is closer to music than then think when it comes to construction . . . all music has a structure, and certain types have definitive structures (like pop music, hook, chorus, hook, chorus, etc) that you have to be aware of and, in fact, can take advantage of when learning - but to say that ALL music that is popular follows one-two-three is a bit ingenius . . . structure is more complex than folks think it is (especially when you get into time, space, telegraphs, call-backs, the dangle, etc) and it's always related to intent . . . the problem is when you're trying to put a common structure on a story that's intended for something else - it's a bit like trying to make Yao Ming a horse jockey . . . he's just not built for it . . . but with folks like Blake, rather than figure out the intent and structure it accordingly, they start with the structure and go from there until they have an intent (I don't think that's how he views it, of course) that fits their structural needs. And you can write some good flicks that way. <BR/><BR/>You can also write some bad ones . . . My Super Ex-Girlfriend, for example . . . <BR/><BR/>I'm not slagging on Blake, of course, he's smart and sold a lot of scripts . . . I'm just pointing out that it shouldn't be the LAST book one reads . . . and the simplification can get annoying once you get to a certain point. Because then people think they know everything there is to know based on his tidy outline, when in reality, there's so much more. . . <BR/><BR/>And because they know that, they feel free to lecture and or change and because the threshold moment is in the same place, say, "but the structure is still there" when in reality it may not be as a result of some . . . it may look like it, but now you got a seven foot six inch Chinese man on a horse instead of a basketball court. <BR/><BR/>Again, this is all just my opinion.Joshua Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08239067667651048280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-5273099164668967522008-10-31T07:45:00.000-04:002008-10-31T07:45:00.000-04:00I think it's called "blogarrhea."I think it's called "blogarrhea."Andrew Bellwarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05718623679244389126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-51229694626728065012008-10-31T00:26:00.000-04:002008-10-31T00:26:00.000-04:00apple schnapps seems to make you a bit more bloggu...apple schnapps seems to make you a bit more bloggular (?)...er...prolific.jengordonthomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13107421152247605616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-11056372219097405772008-10-31T00:14:00.000-04:002008-10-31T00:14:00.000-04:00You know what's interesting about Aliens? When it ...You know what's interesting about Aliens? When it was <I>written</I> you did in fact see the aliens in the first act and the takeover of the facility. <BR/><BR/>They even shot all that. But IMHO they made the movie VASTLY better after having taken it out.Andrew Bellwarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05718623679244389126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-43861408714318503792008-10-31T00:08:00.000-04:002008-10-31T00:08:00.000-04:00Josh -- I think you're right on with what you're s...Josh -- I think you're right on with what you're saying here. The music analogy is very interesting -- that's a place where I feel more comfortable moving away from established form. But I certainly STARTED composing by slavishly modeling after very specific forms. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, whatever works... well, <I>works</I>. <BR/><BR/>What I think is interesting about Save the Cat is that he solves the problems that I'd suppose a majority of writers have. Specifically, he solves a lot of problems that I have. <BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean to say I won't one day make a picture which defies everything he says <I>and that it'll be freakin' fantastic</I>. <BR/><BR/>In fact, I may already have. ;-)Andrew Bellwarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05718623679244389126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-89024219656224944782008-10-30T18:19:00.000-04:002008-10-30T18:19:00.000-04:00The thing about something happening on a certain p...The thing about something happening on a certain page is a bit far out, it really depends upon the genre and story . . . but for those who are interested, there is this beat calculator: http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2006/10/mahlers-script-beat-calculator.html<BR/><BR/>You put in how many pages your script is and it tells you what page a certain beat should happen. <BR/><BR/>Myself, I don't have a problem with this per se (because in television writing it's really structured out like that, with a teaser, first act out, second act out, etc, and there's some good writing in there) because for certain types of films, it can be very helpful. It's one way of structuring a film that many people are familiar with and can understand. <BR/><BR/>It's not, however, the only way to really write a top notch commercial script, in my opinion . . . if you recall Aliens, we don't see an Alien until right before the end of the first act (not counting the dream sequence) . . . and the inciting incident is never seen (the people on the planet gone missing, prompting the company to call on Ripley, etc) . . . <BR/><BR/>I also would note that THE INCREDIBLES, a film I like a lot, is put together in sequences and there are seven acts to you ( I think Alex broke that down some time ago on his blog) ... In my opinion, one thing Blake's STC has done is explain structure and motivation (more scripts lack in the latter than they do in the former, in my opinion) in a simple, bite-sized user friendly bits that helps folks who don't write to understand what he's doing and thus, helps him to sell more scripts . . . that's not meant as a negative, it's actually a brilliant marketing move . . . but for me, genre and story and structure are more like music than anything else, and there are vast complex operas and simple bubble gum ditties, all of which have differing requirements of structure, tone, character . . . In other words, there is more than one way to save a cat. And sometimes cats save us. <BR/><BR/>I like MEMENTO a lot too, and it's very well structured (and Oscar nom'd). As is BATMAN BEGINS and DARK KNIGHT, both co-written (along with Goyer) by the Nolan Brothers, both the latter being epic dark operas of character . . . regardless of whether liked them or not, they certainly resonated with audiences world-wide (not gonna debate with anyone slagging on DK, it works, that's my professional opinion) . . . <BR/><BR/>I don't know if there's a best screenwriting book . . . there are tons people need to be familiar with just because the people you're often selling to know those books, so you have to read them as well . . . but in my opinion, the absolute best book on writing is ON WRITING by Stephen King. <BR/><BR/>Okay. You got me on a rant. I'll go back to lurking.Joshua Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08239067667651048280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18058147.post-35336008385452038552008-10-30T18:13:00.000-04:002008-10-30T18:13:00.000-04:00I break my movies into reels!Makes it easier to ma...I break my movies into reels!<BR/><BR/>Makes it easier to manage in Final Cut Pro.Chance Shirleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18357505066900410563noreply@blogger.com